Yes really! Read the comments to my post ‘Kinnik Kinnik’.
One link came from Rose:
It was interesting to read, but it was full of the usual brash yanky advertising blather. I tried to find something about the processing, but only a tiny bit of information was revealed. Lettuce is definitely the source of the ‘tobacco free, nicotine free’ cigs. Thanks to Rose for the link.
Blocked Dwarf also gave me a link:
BD’s link was on Ebay. It doesn’t specifically say that the stuff is produced from lettuce, but I’ll take BD’s word for it.
I’ve ordered 200 grams at a cost of £20 (including packaging and post). Here is a pic:
That looks ok, doncha think?
The blurb says:
no flavors and no fragrances, no chemical fertilizers, and no organic fertilizers, natural growing.
It will be interesting to find out what this stuff smells like and what it tastes like when tubed. Remember that what I am looking for is a substance which is as bland as possible with which to mix my own stuff. If this Israeli stuff is IT, then that is wonderful.
One of the interesting things about lettuce is that, despite its small size compared with tobacco plants, it does contain a significant amount of condensed material. Think about it. For its size, an iceberg lettuce is pretty dense and heavy. You peel leaves off like peeling an onion.
Despite all the blather about enzymes, I do not really see why lettuce leaves should not be towelled just like baccy leaves. Of course, if you want to mechanise the processing, you could not do that. You would have to simulate towelling in some other way. (Notice that I have reversed the whole way of thinking! – Instead of us trying to emulate manufacturers, they are using large scale processes that mimic what we do)
I have in mind therefore to buy an iceberg lettuce. I shall tear off the leaves and towel them. It will be interesting to see what happens. I might also buy a second one, strip the leaves in the same way and then coat them with a weak solution of the enzyme that I bought. It would be wonderful if these experiments were successful since it would free us from the clutches of all our enemies.
It is a measure of the new totalitarian, fascist hegemony when we have to describe people who do not like the smell of tobacco smoke as ‘the enemy’. Of course, they are not the ‘real’ enemy, but they have allowed themselves to be degraded. That is very sad. The degradation has come from multiple conditioning exercises. Note that it is not smokers who have been degraded. It is non-smokers. A few years ago, these people would have been almost unaware that a person, in their company, has lit a cig. Now, they are super-sensitive. One ought to complement tobacco control on achieving what fascism, communism, socialism, conservatism, liberalism, etc, could never achieve – intellectually numb, emotional obedience.
I’m not sure that there is anything that can be done, except to disobey and circumvent. Certainly, the idea of replacing tobacco plant leaves with lettuce leaves, mixed with one’s own stuff, has promise, in the sense of circumventing The Framework Convention of Tobacco Control. Note that. We are talking about leaving the juggernaut of Tobacco Control thrashing about in the water with no big targets to aim at.
What is becoming more and more obvious is that ASH ET AL are dinosaurs. They have been reliant upon ancient history of Tobacco Company indiscretions from 50 years ago.
The story has a long way to go. The site about using lettuce said that its process took only some four days.
In the end, it will all turn out to be comical.
Imagine what might have happened, ten years ago in Ireland, Scotland and England, had smokers known how they were going to be persecuted and what the plans were. What would have happened?
Probably nothing! Why? Because smokers had already lost the high moral ground. They were already ‘disgusting, filthy, stinking’.
Fortunately for vapers, the boot is on the other foot as regards ecigs. Vapers have the high moral ground. The reason for that is obvious – the Tobacco Control Industry has exaggerate the ‘disgusting, filthy, stinking’ to such an extent that vaping is now holier than tobacco control. If all smokers stopped using tobacco, then 99.9% would immediately cease to have any risk of ‘premature mortality’, and also ‘negligible risk of morbidity’. That is what TC has been preaching for years – stop smoking and you will immediately be saved and live forever. That is what TC has been preaching.
It would be nice to be able to get to the EU. But, from observations, it seems clear that it is not possible. The reason is not that delegates cannot be approached. It is that decisions do not depend upon the delegates. As we have seen, the EU Parliament dismissed the idea of ecigs being regulated as medicines. But what did the arrogant EU apparatchiks do? They sidestepped that decision and introduced plans, quite cynically, to do much the same thing anyway by dictat. But it is important to note THE METHOD of doing so. The dictators introduce a number of possibilities in the expectation that one or more of their plans will be accepted. NO!!!!!! No plans at all are acceptable to those who hold the high moral ground!
Here is a copy of a post that I left at Dick Puddlecote’s place:
What ought to be ABSOLUTELY OBVIOUS to everyone who genuinely claims to be interested in ‘health’ is that there was and is no genuine reason to rush into regulating ecigs. No reason whatsoever. Apart from the odd silliness, such as one battery among millions ‘blowing up’ (harmlessly?), no adverse events seem to have been reported. Therefore, at this time THERE IS NO RISK. The evil charlatans in TC have suggested that there is a risk by saying, “We don’t know ….. ” Well, neither does anyone else. That means that, at this time, there is zero risk. If there is, in actual fact, zero (known) risk, then there is no need whatsoever for regulation. Only when a risk is identified should regulation be considered. In the meantime, the normal laws of the country (and, by implication, the EU) should apply – if some harm results from this ‘new’ product, then the sufferer sues the manufacturer/seller.
The question then arises as to whether or not this matter is within the competence of the EU. I fail to see how there can be, unless caffeine is also within the competence (as a ‘drug’). How many other common substances could be defined as ‘drugs’? Water, for example? Oxygen? Nitrogen? Tea? Cheese? Cocoa? If nicotine is a drug, ALL those things are drugs.
In this case, vapers have ‘the high moral ground’. In this case, they must exercise the most positive civil disobedience possible, should these proposed regulations be accepted IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM.
It is up to vapers (and I would join them myself!). It really is vastly important to draw a line. For example, Wigan Council arbitrarily banned ecigs in its enclosed places. Vapers around Wigan MUST go out of their way to DELIBERATELY provoke the Council zealots. I mean, to the extent of attending council meetings in numbers and deliberately vaping in the meeting. Create mayhem. Vapers have the high moral ground – and it would not take an army! Fifty vapers, ‘lighting up’ one at a time, in a council meeting and being physically thrown out of the meeting, would be headline news.
This is a case which is absolute. NO INTERFERENCE. I shall say it again. Vapers have the high moral ground. Go to Parliament and vape in the public gallery. Vape in courts. BUT ONLY FIGHT IN GOVERNMENT PLACES. Do not vape on aircraft if the airline forbids it. Your battle is with Government.
Remember the poll tax? It was introduced in Scotland without demure. But in England little old ladies (who were probably better off with it!) marched. The poll tax was abandoned and Thatcher was sacked.
It seems to me that the EU bureaucrats are arrogant beyond belief, and I suspect that I know why that is. The reason is something like the ability of individual MPs in the UK to submit proposals for debate in parliament. Their proposals go into a lottery, and if an individuals proposal is drawn out of the hat, his proposal gets debated. In the EU, the country holding the current Presidency can propose dictats. Thus, the Irish presidency proposed PP. As it happened, that proposal was also seen to be lovely by the bureaucrats, and so it went sailing ahead. Had it not been, the the bureaucrats would have delayed and obfuscated and mounted a ‘filibuster’ attack and killed the proposal indirectly. We can thus see how it came to be that Soubry’s wholly unacceptable trip to Luxembourg came about, despite parliament’s rules that ministers MUST NOT sign EU arrangements without the committee’s agreement. But did you see what happened? THERE WAS NO VOTE!!! Somehow, the idea that the tobacco control directive should be allowed to carry on was decided WITHOUT A VOTE!!!! How could that be? I do not know. It must have been something along the lines of ‘acclaim’ - “What do we think, chaps? Go with it?” Applause. “OK then. We go with it” Thus, technically, Soubry (and Black and the rest of the zealots) have manipulated the system and got away with it. That is what I mean by ‘governmental arrogance’. It is the avoidance of proper process.
I shall end with this quote from links provided by Dick P here:
“I know. Personally I think having a safer alternative could lead to a justification of a ban on smoking tobacco“
That was from Monika Kosinska who seems to be a Brit rep in the EU. How naive can you get?
———Enough. I must to bed.
Kinnickinnick (an Ojibwe word) literally means “what is mixed,” and refers to plant materials that Indian people mixed with tobacco for smoking. Use of kinnickinnick was widespread in North America but the ingredients varied regionally. In the Woodlands, the favorite ingredients were the inner bark of certain willows, dogwoods, or sumac leaves. The final mixture usually only contained about one third tobacco.
I don’t know how strong the native tobacco was, but if this Kinnik Kinnik is anything to go by, it must have been mind-blowing.
As I said yesterday, I received my packet of KK herbal mixture yesterday. I got it from a place called ‘Star Child’. I don’t know where Star Child got it’s list of the ingredients from and what the proportion of each ingredient was. I suppose that someone must have written it down sometime. There are red bits, brown bits, black bits, grey bits and tiny bits of twig.
When I opened the package, the smell smacked me hard in the nose. I had bought 10 sachets X 28 grams costing about £30 (no expense spared for the greater good!). I know the smell, but for the life of me, I cannot place it. It is sharp and bitter/sweet. The sort of sharp smell that you get from mothballs. Or could it be the sort of sachet things which are sometime placed in parcels of clothing? Something like that – not unpleasant, but sharp. I took a couple of pics:
Here is the sachet:
And here is some of the herb:
On the whole, it is chopped up pretty well, but you can see a sort of tube bit just left of centre. that is a bit of hard twig stuff – far too hard to tube. There are other hard little lumps. So I went through the whole sachet and removed the hard bits, and this is what I finished up with:
I’ll put the twiggy bits, on the left, through the coffee grinder when I get round to it.
I tubed three fags:
1. The KK alone.
2. 50:50 KK and Virginia/Burley.
3. 50:50 KK and my home-grown.
In all cases, the KK overlaid all other smells and tastes. I would say that to actually enjoy the taste would be an acquired taste. Having said that, I do remember the taste and smell of herbal cigs from trying them decades ago, and the taste of my trials is very similar. The taste is bitter/sweet and lingers on the lips. But we must also remember that the Red Indians also used the mix of herbs and tobacco as incense as well as for smoking.
That is not what I want. But the stuff will not go to waste. I see the herbal stuff as being maybe a 10% addition to add piquancy. There is still some way to go with this experiment.
For the time being, I’m back to square one – the prospect is my own mixed with Virginia. At the moment, I am using up all the Burley that I have left and letting my own stuff age a little more. Once the Burley is used up, then it is just a question of what is the best mix of my own stuff with Virginia, plus a soupçon of KK.
I like the prospect that is opening up, but I would like to find a herb, or whatever, which is ‘neutral’. You see, I feel instinctively that what I am producing is more like a pipe tobacco, possibly because of the nature of the land hereabouts. Next year, the seeds that I’ll be using will be from my own plants. It will be interesting to see whether that makes a difference. I do not know. What I hope is that the benefit will be in more luxurious growth.
The goal is still to free us from dictatorship. NO! We do not accept that we must buy only Big Tobacco products, and especially tobacco control dictated Big Tobacco products. We wish to be self-sufficient.
I suppose that it impossible to have an blog ‘un-record’, unless you want to keep figures which show your least number of visitors. That would be pointless. Nevertheless, it is pleasant to be able to report an new record. The new record has been driven by people reading the last post about the forces arraigned against ecigs. An awful lot of readers have originated from Twitter. It is reasonable to assume that someone on Twitter linked to my ecig post and interest in it developed as a result. Oddly enough, despite the interest, not a single person has commented, apart from the good people who comment here regularly.
I fear for vapers. I suspect that they have isolated themselves by disconnecting themselves from people who enjoy tobacco. I suppose that such an action is reasonable in view of the vitriol spurted at smokers. I understand the fear. Vapers would prefer to avoid the vitriol. But we have seen that the zealots in the EU have demonised their hopes in just the same way that they did with respect to PETS. A couple of bent studies and a lot of emotional rhetoric. Off you go, you vapers. You are disgusting, filthy, stinking.
I went to the pub tonight (as I do on a Friday). There was a young lady standing outside vaping. I told her that the manager of the joint did not mind vapers vaping inside provided that there was no ‘aggro’. I don’t know if she had the courage to vape inside.
I followed a link to some vaper site. There, someone referred to my post. The words were (paraphrased), “Interesting comments here. I have seen them before, but they are well presented” Another person said, “It looks like he is a devils advocate”. I suppose that it could be true – if this matter was some sort of game. To me, it is anything but. To me, it seems that vapers are being degraded, just as smokers have been degraded. At least vapers have some pre-knowledge of the forces arraigned against them. Whether they can do anything about the situation is uncertain – I wish and hope that they can.
There is a possibility.
In order to reverse the ‘disgusting, filthy, stinking’, vapers need to focus their objections re EU interference. If they have any sense, they will NOT bother writing to MPs and MEPs. They will write, in great numbers to the Health Sec and the PM. HIT THE PEOPLE WHO WILL DECIDE THE LEGISLATION AND NOT THE INSTIGATORS OF THE LEGISLATION. The instigators are of no importance at all. Remember that the EU is just a TREATY. It has no force in law until the UK Gov enacts a law.
Finally for tonight, I received my supply of Kinnik Kinnik. I thought that I would tube a fag with it but found that the machine blocked right away. The reason was that the KK had lots of hard little lumps. I had to sift through it with my fingers feeling for the lumps and removing them. I’ll have to grind them in the coffee grinder. I managed to tube one loosely. Our sense of smell is unbelievably wonderful . If I was asked to describe a smell, I could not do it without referring to another smell. What is wonderful about our sense of smell is that we can remember smells from decades ago, even if we cannot describe them. The smell of the cig was very, very similar to the smell and taste of herbal cigs that I remember from forty years ago. It really is weird how one’s brain retains the memory of these smells for decades.
It would be too difficult to enter into discussion and description of the KK stuff tonight Perhaps tomorrow will give greater insight.
I bit of whimsy on my part, I’m afraid. But there is a reason for that headline. There have been forecasts which have suggested that ecigs will replace cigs as the majority way of enjoying nicotine in about ten years time. That is extremely bad news for The Tobacco Control Industry. It means that tobacco plant growing will continue, and probably increase, as time goes by. For true zealots, that is an appalling prospective. They want a tobacco-free world, which means an end to the cultivation of the plant (apart from Big Drug applications). It is also bad news for the charlatans in the industry, since the ‘raison d’etre’ for their ‘nice little earner’ is rapidly ceasing to exist. What is the point of wasting billions of pounds trying to stop the hard-core smoking by TV adverts and surveys and studies? What is the point? It is simply not cost-effective.
You would think that such a situation is one earnestly to be desired from the point of view of Tobacco Control, but no. It is all happening too quickly. In the UK, the aim is to reduce smoking at a rate of 2% per an. In that way, the revenue stream from tobacco sales can be gradually moved onto something else. It would be bad news for government if everyone stopped smoking all at once. Ecigs have the potential to take that 2% reduction per an OUT OF THE CONTROL OF The Tobacco Control Industry, in which case, that industry (in the UK at least, and probably throughout the EU) would be damaging. It would be damaging to the government, which wants tobacco sales to reduce only at the rate of 2% per an for revenue reasons.
So there is a huge alliance of interests opposed to the rapid expansion of ecigs:
1. Tobacco Control.
As I understand it, TC is committed to a reduction of smoking prevalence of 2% per annum. It is not in the interests of many of the people in TC to reduce smoking any more rapidly than that. Some of these people are charlatans who see ‘public health’ as ‘a nice little earner’.
2. Tobacco Companies.
Hard regulation (as medicines, for example) would suit these organisations wonderfully well. Only they have the funds to pay the costs.
3. Drugs companies.
If ecigs are successful, demand for their cessation products will dramatically decline.
A rapid decline in smoking would be very bad for its revenue stream.
That is a terrible alliance of interests, and, as I see it, overwhelming.
Vapers must learn from the experience of people who enjoy tobacco. DO NOT TRUST THE GOVERNMENT. It will shit on you without the slightest qualm. MPs like Williams and Blackman will accuse you of killing babies, and will produce ‘studies’ to prove it.
The Tobacco Control Industry is in an awful panic to block the advance of ecigs because they are becoming far too popular far too quickly. Vapers have been scared to death once by the propaganda. Now they are being demonised again. And, like true smokers, they can do nothing whatsoever about it.
I have an ecig and a good supply of liquid. But I don’t use it. It is there if ever I feel the need. I have moved on in my mind beyond the zealots into home grown stuff mixed, possibly, with herbs. That is an imminent experiment.
The People of Ireland are particularly plagued by Holy Zealots. The forces against them, as outlined above, are enormous. The only escape from the trap is disobedience. No government has the right to stop you from being self-sufficient, as far as possible.
I was following some links this evening (before I went to the (almost deserted) pub) for my Wednesday night couple of pints. I came across a rather weird happening. Needless to say, the happening was in Australia.
We all know that the whole of Australia is proud of leading the world in tobacco control. Their leaders never stop telling us. In fact, they have gone further than any other ‘free’ country anywhere by banning the movement of tobacco seeds, plants, leaves, etc, using a 1901 law. The reason for that law is lost in the depths of time, but it has been resurrected for persecution purposes. However, I know that Australians ignore it, and I know of no prosecutions which have resulted from it. Such prosecutions that I have seen have been based upon current law, regarding the avoidance of duty tax by growing stuff, curing it and then supplying it to people who use it to ‘manufacture’ tobacco products in large quantities. That is, growing plants is not the offence – the offence is promoting the avoidance of duty on a significantly large scale. Readers might recall that I mentioned that some people in OZ have applied for licences to grow their own and been refused because it is too much trouble for the authorities to check that they are carrying out the required procedures. It is obviously a catch 22 – you cannot grow your own unless you have a licence, but you cannot get a licence. In those circumstance, one must ‘pass through’ the horns of the dilemma. The easy way would be to plant one plant and advise the authorities that you have done so and invite ‘considered opinions’ about the law. If you get no response, write to the top man and your MP. You must push it to the limit and demand an answer to the question of whether or not the ancient law is still extant. OR, just ignore the ancient law and proceed as many Australians do, on the basis that no one will interfere with what you are doing because it is simply not worth the cost of monitoring and prosecuting.
Which is all ‘by the way’ and is only indicative of the ‘lassiez faire’ attitude of Australians.
I keep reading about how Australia has one of the highest smoking rates in the world – around 50%. And yet I also keep reading that the prevalence is low, in the region of 23%, or so. I don’t get it. Which is true?
If it is true that OZ smoking is much higher that the authorities are letting on, we can see that the OZ Gov must be quite reliant upon tobacco taxes. Therefore, it would wish that smoking should be reduced at a rate which does not disturb the ‘tax take’ too much. If everyone stopped smoking tomorrow, it would be a disaster financially. Remember that the cost of collecting this tax is very low since tobacco product manufacturers levy it. Thus, if large numbers of people were to suddenly move over to ecigs, it would be disastrous for government. Taxes not reliant upon tobacco would have to increase significantly.
In this context, the following is significant:
Court defeat fuels move to ban e-cigs
The Cancer Council wants WA’s [Western Australia] tobacco laws changed to specifically ban electronic cigarettes after a test case that sought to charge a business for selling them was thrown out of court.
Joondalup Magistrate’s Court ruled last week there was not enough evidence that two types of electronic cigarettes looked like cigarettes or cigars, acquitting the operators of Heavenly Vapours of breaching the Tobacco Products Control Act.
So-called e-cigarettes are battery-powered devices that do not burn tobacco but turn nicotine or fruit flavours into vapour that is inhaled and exhaled.
It is illegal to sell e-cigarettes that contain nicotine under Australian law.
The WA Health Department prosecuted the Duncraig-based operators who sold e-cigarettes and nicotine-free “e-juice” through a website in late 2011.
WA tobacco laws prohibit the sale of any food, toy or other product that is not a tobacco product but is designed to resemble a tobacco product.
But the court ruled the electronic cigarettes did not necessarily resemble a cigarette or cigar and could also look like a fountain pen. Unlike normal cigarettes, they also required the user to press a button.
Cancer Council WA director of education and research Terry Slevin said it was a legal loophole that needed to be fixed because electronic cigarettes were a growing concern.
I continue to be amazed at the infantile understanding in Australia of science. The mere fact that ‘WA Health Department’ prosecuted someone who owned a shop selling ecigs on the grounds that ecigs ‘might’ look like fags is indicative of the level of ’public intelligence’ there. When I say ‘public intelligence’. I do not mean ‘the intelligence of the public’. I mean ‘the intelligence of the public sector’. Or, you could put it another way. You could say that the ‘public sector’ deliberately employs emotion rather than reason.
It is good that the court dismissed the allegations, but the Zealots will be back using some obscure complexity in the law, as has been the case here. The idea of equating ecigs with actual tobacco is really silly, which is the foundation for the court judgement. But note below the weirdness of TC thinking.
Data from the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention in the US recently showed the number of middle and high school students who used e-cigarettes more than doubled from 2011 to 2012.
Mr Slevin said the Tobacco Products Control Act was due for a review and could help ban e-cigarettes as well as address issues such as the need to reduce the number of licensed tobacco retailers. This incident of a failed attempt to prosecute points to the fact that the current provisions are not adequate,” he said.
A hypothetical statement from Cameron in the House of Commons:
“Ladies and Gentlemen.
It has become apparent that the danger of the enjoyment of tobacco is so great that your Government has decided to introduce to the House a BILL which will outlaw, in the whole of the United Kingdom, the cultivation of ANY HERBS WHATSOEVER. We have been advised by our experts that the use of any herbs whatsoever to produce pleasantly aromatic indulgences in the air, for example, as incense, kills EVERYONE. That is the revised understanding which we have been alerted about by the Health Department’s experts. Previously, we were advised that ‘smoking’ especially killed only every other smoker, but we are now advised that smoking kills ALL smokers. Also, that ALL substances which are burnt have the same effect. (Nota Bene: Arnott et al “There is no safe level”). However, we have since discovered that ‘Arnott et al’ is a cover for various under-cover groups, and so “There is no safe level” may well be a concoction similar to the “23 times greater than in a smoky bar” miasma, as promulgated by the Eminent And Most Worshipful Eminence Nathanson, Commander in Chief of MEDICAL ETHICS at the British Medical Association.”
Wow! How can we demure? We cannot. Therefore we apologise for permitting the sale of ‘tobacco products’ for the last 10,000 years and declare that the Trustees of ASH (there being no ‘members’} are personally liable retrospectively. We therefore ban the Erm ….. Whatever ….. and ….. Erm …. Regarding these ASH bla, bla ….”
For heavens sake!!! Who cares about the “Edicts”, provided that we have control of our own lives?
Most people will be vaguely aware that the EU Healthist Dept directed that ‘herbal smoking products’ should be treated as tobacco products for duty purposes. As usual, Tobacco Control in the UK have swung into action with the usual alacrity and sneaked in a law to that effect which comes into effect on 1st Jan 2014.
I remember reading about it a couple of months ago. At the time, I thought that these regulations were quite silly for the obvious reason that herbs are not tobacco. Also, the Government did an impact assessment and declared that the effect would be negligible regarding government finances. But then I thought, “Erm …… Perhaps tobacco plants are herbs” I thought that that was sweet. But it might well be true. Why should we not consider tobacco plants as herbs? What else might one describe them as? Tomatoes and potatoes have nicotine in them, but we would hardly describe tobacco plants as those fruits/vegetables, would we, even though they are of the same family of plants. The value of tomatoes is the fruit; the value of potatoes is the tubers; the value of tobacco is the leaves. Because the value of tobacco plants is in the leaves, then I think that we can properly describe them as herbs. Thus, we tobacco smokers are herbal smokers. It may be that, for some people, smoking these herbs might be harmful, but it might also be true that, for some people, smoking these herbs might be beneficial. Doll’s Doctors Study be no means precludes that since his vision of harm is only the effect upon longevity. In the end, all the doctor who had died to date when the study ended (2001) had died mostly from ‘smoking related’ diseases. Indeed, as Garyk reminds us often, 84% of smokers died from smoking related diseases and so did 84% of non-smokers.
But discussion led me to this site:
It describes the use of tobacco by North American Indians.
I read in it that ‘Red Indians’ mixed their tobacco with other substances which were not tobacco because their tobacco was very strong. I had not thought of the idea of mixing my own strong stuff with similar substances (which are not tobacco). How interesting!
This idea could be of vast importance to us all. I really ought not to have to spell it out. To aid the thinking process, consider this:
“Star Child smoking mixes are blends of pure herbs that have not been subjected to any form of processing or curing. They do not contain any additives, flavour enhancers, preservatives or substances that influence the rate at which herbs burn.”
Do you see? Native Americans mixed their strong tobacco with non-tobacco ‘herbs’, which were not processed other than simply drying out. Herbal stuff is also untreated other than …… What?
We need to know what herbs and how they are treated (even though not ‘processed’). Assuming that they are the leaves/roots of various herbs which have merely been dried (like Kinnickinnick), are they readily and cheaply available? Can we grow them ourselves?
The reason that I think that this is important is that, at the moment, I cannot produce enough of my own stuff to last a full year (to say nothing of herself). But if I had a ready supply of a suitable mixing agent to mix with my own ‘strong’ stuff, then the situation changes immensely. I would no longer be dependent upon the tobacco industry (and thus upon tobacco control) at all! The growing, drying and distribution of all herbs (including tobacco herbs) would have to be banned if I am to be stopped.
Is this likely to become an ‘unintended consequence’? WOW! What a prospect this opens! As an example ( and I’m going to try this), I take some bay leaves (which are used for flavouring dishes) and shred them and chop them. I mix them with baccy and try it out. Jesus! How many of these herbs grow naturally in the wild? Leg Iron has talked about sowing baccy seeds in the wild, but how much more interesting would it be if we grow our own baccy plants in greenhouses or outdoors and collect wild herb leaves for drying and mixing? WOW! The possibilities are enormous.
You said that you have ‘an unopened bag of Kinnik Kinnik’. Open it. Mix it with some tobacco and smoke it. Try different mix strengths. This could be massively important in the war against the Tobacco Control Industry. Please do it and let us know the result.
For myself, I shall see if I can find out what herbs are used and how they are treated. Perhaps a whole new experience is opening up.
All hail Arnott and co! Without them we would never have known.
UPDATE 2.30 am.
I have grasped the nettle myself. I have ordered some Kinnik Kinnik. The postage cost were enormous, and so I have ordered 10 x 28 grams at a total cost of about £30 including postage. If my thinking is right, this experiment could be massively important. How many of us have considered mixing tobacco with non-tobacco? WOW!
Thanks to the reasonably fine weather that we have had for the last few days I have managed to complete the ‘double digging’ of plots 1 and 2.
I showed a pic of plot 1 a few days ago, for anyone who hasn’t seen it, here it is again:
In the background, the soil is piled high and in big lumps. That is just the way it has worked out and that is what I want. I want frost to be able to get well into the soil and freeze the water in it so as to make billions of tiny holes which can fill with nitrogen. The foreground is less lumpy because that was the last section and has been filled with stuff from the first trench. It doesn’t matter that it is less lumpy – in spring, I’ll be smoothing the whole lot out. Paul made the point that the digging out and loosening creates a bigger volume, which is clearly true. But it will settle over the coming months.
Here is Plot 2:
Readers of previous posts from last year will notice that I have extended the plot both to the right and to the left.
The bulk of the material, as with the previous pic, is piled in the middle part. Again, it will all be smoothed out in spring.
I have started to dig in tea bags as a fertilizer, as I mentioned in the previous post a few days ago. Karen advised to tear the bags because her experience has been that, unless you do so, the bags tend to survive and not rot down, sometimes for years. I really didn’t fancy tearing them all before throwing into the shallow trench! But I had a little brain wave. I filled the bottom of the shallow trench as much as I thought was reasonable, and then jabbed the bags with the sharpish, leading edge of my spade. It worked a treat! The bags split asunder with the greatest of ease. It was done in a minute. Following that, another application of wee completed the job and I was able to fill that shallow trench and create the next one at the same time.
It involves a fair amount of work, but it is worth it. I wish to ‘test the limits’ – to see how far one can go as an amateur with minimum costs.
So that about finishes this growing season. It will now be around 1st March next year when I start to germinate seeds in the new heated propagator. The new plantlets should be ready for planting out by mid-May – NOT BEFORE!
This year’s ‘stuff’ has aged somewhat. I’ll be starting to use it soon. I have in mind a mixture of 25% my own and 75% Virginia. My own stuff is pretty strong. I found a description of old American Indian practices (note to Rose – not Buffalo Woman’s Garden!). It seems that their stuff was rather strong and was mixed in similar proportions (25%/75%) with red willow (?) bark. It must have had a nice taste or they would not have bothered.
There is still much to learn.
Last night’s post might have been unduly pessimistic. Nevertheless, I can see us having to prepare for a situation which is as near prohibition as the zealots can get without putting themselves out of a job (or necessitating their search for new prohibitionist bandwagons to scramble onto). There is the intention of prohibition of tobacco products, but the governments requires the effect to be very gradual for financial reasons. That is the reason for the manifestly silly attacks on ecigs. Let’s face it – a product which does away with the “thousands of chemicals” caused by combustion cannot be anything but ‘better’, and therefore ought to be encouraged, if only temporarily. The idea of discouraging people from using ecigs rather than smoking fags is like discouraging people who drink a bottle of scotch a day from replacing that consumption with a half of mild. It may be true that the half of mild is still alcohol, and ‘there is no safe level’ of alcohol consumption, but even so …… Another nice example could be the consumption of food. If a person who is grossly obese decides to stop eating twenty big macs per day and instead consumes twenty cream-crackers coated with cottage cheese and a few pieces of cucumber, it would be the height of silliness to try to stop him because cottage cheese is ‘fattening’. The government financial necessity for a slow process of tobacco use reduction means that we probably have little to fear from tobacco control for the foreseeable future. Sure, they will continue to harass us, but only in insignificant ways. Their main weapon (their atom bomb if you like) was the smoking ban. Little that they have achieved since has had any great effect. Despite all the fuss, people have not stopped smoking close to hospital entrances. Remember the thugs who were supposed to be enforcing the Glasgow grounds ban? How they resigned after a couple of weeks because of the flak which they were receiving? Can I just paint a hypothetical picture? Person A, a little old lady, is having a fag near the entrance. It is raining and so she is close to the entrance under cover. She is not the only one. There are a dozen others. A gestapo thug comes over and tells her she cannot smoke there and tries to bully here. After a few seconds, one of the others pipes up. “What the f*** are you trying to do to that lady, you b*****. Why don’t you leave her alone. Try it on with somebody your own size, you c***” And then someone else chips in, “Aye. Leave her alone. Why are you doing this job? Bullying people? You’re nothing but a traitor to the working class. Sod off!” Gestapo bully slinks off. That is probably the sort of thing that happened. The gestapo would hardly have packed the job in simply because the little old lady said, “Oh dear”. And that is the sort of happening which the newspapers would not have reported in full. I would like to see these oncologists etc doing their own dirty work rather than shouting for someone else to do it. What is more likely is that those who have an interest will press for persecution which is fairly invisible and behind the scenes while ‘the public mind’ is on ecigs and plain packaging. It is likely that pressure on imports by holiday makers will increase. Precisely how TC in the Health Dept and in the EU will get around ‘free trade’ as a primary principle of the EU I do not know, but I am sure that they will try. Even more likely will be pressure on the import of tobacco leaf. Because of the coincidence of interests in this matter, pressure is almost certain. Let’s face it, tobacco control, tobacco companies and the treasury all have an interest. Does anyone else not think that it is odd that the EU health zealots are going after ecigs while turning a blind eye to most leaf imports? Mind you, again the free market raises its ugly head. Government might wish to pass legislation that such imports may only go to ‘registered tobacco manufacturers’, but imagine the problems and cost of enforcement! That is to say nothing of the potential knock-on effect as regards grape-juice etc. We are all aware, and I suppose that government must also be aware, that the ‘slippery slope’ has been shown to be be A FACT WHICH CAN NO LONGER BE DENIED. ASH ET AL might be ignoring it, but it is up to us to keep going on about it. It is because of these thoughts that I believe that the review might indeed be a political ploy. I was reading about the debate in the House of Lords in which the zealots were pushing to amend the Children and Families Bill to include a clause requiring PP. As I recall, the proposed amendment was withdrawn. I suspect that the coalition gov had let it be known that it was going to hold this review. That means that the Children and Families Bill can proceed without potential aggravation. That is one political inconvenience sorted. But I have also read that it might also ‘teach Alex Salmond a lesson’. The Scottish Gov is keen to introduce PP off its own bat, but it can hardly do so if the UK Gov is conducting a review. I have little doubt that there will be much gnashing of teeth North of the border, especially in ASH SCOTLAND. As far as they were concerned, PP was a done deal. Now, everything is up in the air again. Suppose that Sir Cyril Chantler turns out to be truly independent, despite being a paediatrician? Suppose that, try as he might, he cannot find evidence that PP will have anything other than a minimal effect? Suppose that tobacco companies threaten to go to law on the grounds that the proposal of PP would be disproportionate when weighed against the loss of trademarks? Remember that the Law Case in Australia was about the constitutionality in Australia of PP, and not about trademarks. The trademarks question is a matter for internationally agreed treaty obligations, which is a different thing altogether. The important thing is that any legislation will take a long time, and thus, annoying though it might be, the whole thing will turn out out be of no importance whatsoever from a health point of view. That is obvious since the whole thing has nothing it do with children. It is merely a propagandised, direct attack upon tobacco companies. ============= We must note, more than anything else, that once TC has achieved legislation, it totally loses interest in the particular matter which the legislation was about. TC is no longer interested in bans in pubs, etc. It does not give a damn about enforcement. It would not be bothered at all if the ban was not enforced. What is important to TC is the next piece of legislation. And remember that ANY legislation ANYWHERE is a great success for TC. Our Government, and all EU Governments, need to get the gorilla of TC off their backs. It is wrong to believe that that the whole medical profession is behind the zealots. At the moment, the medical profession is in a position similar to a police force in a communist country – it must obey. GPs are contractually bound to pester their patients and tick boxes, as are NHS dentists. It is up to them to rid themselves of these restrictions. And, they are doing. How? By doing only what is absolutely decreed. It is a form of ‘work to rule’. The horror, of course, is that it is costing the NHS a fortune to put an end to something which is not happening. That is the laughable part about it. It is NOT happening that people who enjoy tobacco suffer more ill -health than non-smokers. In fact, it has been shown that non-smokers, over their whole lives, actually suffer more ill-health (or more costly ill-health) than smokers. Thus, the Zealots are actually costing the NHS more, in addition to the costs of TC itself. “DEAR MR CAMERON. I KNOW THAT THE MEDICAL PROFESSION IS A GORILLA CLINGING ONTO YOUR BACK. WHY DON’T YOU SHRUG IT OFF? IT IS SIMPLE! JUST REFUSE TO FUND ANYTHING OTHER THAN GENUINE, PHYSICAL RESEARCH INTO ACTUAL DISEASES OR INTO GENUINE PHYSICAL RESEARCH INTO THE FUNCTIONING OF THE HUMAN BODY. FURTHER, DO NOT PAY THE ‘WHO’ ANY MONEY UNLESS IT IS PROVEN TO BE NECESSARY ON THE SAME BASIS. FURTHER, IN ORDER TO PROTECT YOUR GOVERNMENT FROM THE NASTINESS OF SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS LIKE ASH, DEMAND THAT THEY PROVE THAT THEY ARE NOT CREATURES OF BIG PHARM. ALSO, INVESTIGATE HOW ASH, A LOBBY GROUP AND PUBLICITY ORGANISATION, GOT MONEY FROM THE NATIONAL LOTTERY. DEMAND THAT JEREMY HUNT JUSTIFIES THE COST OF THE TC ORGANISATION WITHIN THE HEALTH DEPT. DO IT! And thrust the gorilla off your back.